What would you do? I have a HUGE dilema.

[JaimieMarvon]

I had a conversation via IM last night with a young (13 1/2) boy I know. He is my cousin's son. I'm in Jersey, he lives in Florida. He asked me if he could tell me something if I promised not to tell anyone. Of course I said yes. He told me his father (not biological) told him that he was a failure that night. After a half hour conversation he told me that the father says that he (the boy) is ruining the family, has hit him on the mouth and drawn a little blood, and is very mean to him saying many things like that alot. Of course this happens when no one else is around. AND the little brother "tourtures" him as well, mocks him and such.

Just a little over 2 years ago they sent him away for a year to a sleep away school for kids with behavoiral problems. I believe family services had been to the house just before he got sent away to that school. That is how they found out about the school. I was there visiting when the school year was almost over and he was home for a special weekend. He was so nice to me and so heloful. Polite and he listened to me. I saw his mother pick on his for LITTLE stuff that all kids do, and do nothing or even laugh when the younger one did the same or worse.

I went through everything you are thinking, asking him to talk to his mother; he says she and daddy will just fight and he hates it when they fight, besides things only get worse. Then I asked him to talk to his grandparents (the father's parents are the best ones, believe it or not!) and he said NO WAY. I tried to get him to talk to ANYONE. He won't he just says they'll be sorry when I'm gone. I want to run away so bad, but I can't. He's sure he'd get caught and he's more afraid of getting caught adn what the father would do to him afterwards. I tried to explain that he would be homeless and be eating out of garbage cans.

I had a thought while I was typing all this out. Maybe I can call the school he was at and talk to the counsleor there. Maybe I can convince her to call family services to do a follow with his family. Then it didnt come from me! What do you think? Is it worth a try???

PS sorry for all the Typos!!

[LPCullen]

It's only my personal opinion, but whenever a child "speaks", I believe they are asking for help. I'm not a psychologist or an expert or anything else, it's only my opinion.

I would call the school counselor and talk to them, for sure.

[SuzyQ]

Calling the school counselor is probably a good idea. This is a really sticky situation. Working with the Childrens Home we see alot of this type of stuff. Many times it is a lose lose situation. I love the Childrens Home I think it is a wonderful place. But when they get state placed kids in there they are constantly being shuffled in and out of foster homes. The system is so hard to figure out. If they take him out of the house he will be in and out of foster homes which can be just as bad. His best situation would be for a relative to take him.

[KathieB]

This is certainly a dilemma for you, Jaime. It's hard to know what you now know and not want to act on it. But perhaps what the boy needs most right now is someone who will be empathetic and NOT tell. At such a distance, it's difficult to impossible to know what the day-to-day dynamics are in the household. Being able to TRUST an adult (you) may be what he needs most of all at the moment.

I don't think I'd alert any officials at this point. Some school counselors are not terribly good at what they're supposed to do and could very well make things worse by getting involved.

And you can't be sure how hard he's pulling your chain, either. I have known kids (children of friends and a distant relative) about that age who are all sweetness and light when strangers/vistors are around and a total demon within the immediate family.

How close are you to the mother, your cousin? Can you give her an opening in conversation like: "[boy's name] must certainly be a handful at times." And see if she'll open up to you? It might give you a better picture of what happens when you're not around.

There are a lot of choices here. I don't think I'd rush into doing anything if you don't feel the child is in immediate physical danger. If that's the case, forget all the advice above and dial Social Services asap.

[MiniMadWoman]

Very tough situation Jaime! It's hard not to act when a child talks to you about something as serious as abuse, no matter the type of abuse involved.

I'd give it a day or two and then call him "just to chat". See what he says at that time. It could be he had a particularly bad day and it will blow over. If not, you can act on it then. Like Kathie said "as long as he's in no immediate physical danger". When you talk to him again, be sure to let him know that you are concerned and that it's important for him to talk to someone there, like a trusted teacher or friend and that if he doesn't, you are prepared to do the talking for him.

Good luck and please keep us posted!

[JaimieMarvon]

I would take him in a HEARTBEAT! But he has a step-aunt (35), aunt (18), Uncle (30) and another uncle (27), not to mention his grandparents.

I want to be able to do something to help. I don't think he's fibbing. But I'm so far away. And I don't want to loos e his trust. He needs somone to trust. He obviously doesn't trust his parents. I am so unbelieveably TORN!!!

I don't think he is in immediately danger PHYSICALLY, but what about his emotional well being and self esteem?

Yes, I think I wil wait a few days to see what else happens. But honestly this is not the first times he's mentioned it, before was just not as much detail.

Also did I mention that the father committed Credit Card Fraud of over $10,000 last year? He's on a felon Probation!

[Robin]

I would call the counselor or Child Protective Services, now.

I don't mean to sound dramatic but better safe than sorry. I don't think hitting the kid in the mouth and drawing blood is something that will go away. Sounds to me like this "father" is a real loser. Whatever you do, keep notes about your conversations with him, like times and subject matter. It may help him in the long run. Sending positive thoughts your way and a huge hug to this boy who obviously needs one.

[Lisa_F]

Oh Jamie, my heart goes out to your little cousin, and to you - for the dilema you are in!

I don't think there is any one *right* answer - because there are likely to be repurcussions of one type or another no matter what action is taken. My best advice/opinion would be to search your heart and do (or don't do) what your heart tells you is the right thing to do in this situation.

"Promising not to tell" places a HUGE burden on you - and I can definitely understand why you would be hesitant to break a promise to him - especially when it sounds as if he is emotionally fragile and doesn't feel he has anyone else to trust with his troubles and you are probably right that he would figure it out if you were to report his parents anonymously.

But it seems to me that his telling you was a cry for help - even if he doesn't quite realize it yet himself.

His comment to you that "they'll be sorry when I'm gone" chills me. Those are desperate words coming from a child (from anyone actually). Is he prone to hysterics or over-dramatizing situations? If so, I'd give it a few days to settle down if you don't think he's in any danger - and then talk with him. If, however, he is not a child that over dramatizes the things happening in his life, then I would take his cry for help very seriously and act on it.

I'm not an authority on the subject and not having any real experience in this area I can't say for certain exactly what I would do if I were in your shoes, but speaking as a mother myself, I believe what I would do is contact the authorities - he's making threats (they'll be sorry when I'm gone) and he's claimed to have been physically abused (hit in the mouth) and emotionally abused (father tells him he's ruining the family).

In my opinion (and again, I'm not an expert here) a promise to keep silent is null and void if the person is in any danger - emotionally or physically. I would, however, make certain I was the one to tell him, if I did indeed contact the authorities. I would explain what I did and that I did it out of love for him and concern for his safety. I would also tell him that under ordinary circumstances you would never betray his promise - but that because you love him - your first obligation is to ensure that he is safe and unharmed.

I wish there was a *perfect* answer to this dilema that we could give you Jamie. My thoughts & prayers are with you. Please keep us posted.

[JaimieMarvon]

The most ironic thing just happened. I have my IM on. I noticed that the boy's grandmother was online. She is my cousin's step-mother. Myu cousin's mother died from Cancer when we were 15 and her father remarried less than 2 years later. Joan and I don't know each other well, but I decieded to say hello and start a chat. I know that we both have the opinion that cousin and hubby do not discipline well.

I asked about the kids and how she thought things were going. Long story short she says that he likes to make up stories. Proceeded to tell me some of the naughty things he told the neighbor girls and how he listens in to the A"adult conversations" and then tells his buddies how Grandpa is getting a "million" dollars for being a disabled vet. LOL

So maybe the kid is telling truths but stretching them. I DON"T KNOW. I think I wil let it got for now. Since I don't think there is Immediate danger of him being physically hurt. and I'll keep in touch wiht the family members and the kid. UGH!!

I do feel a little better.....

His comment to you that "they'll be sorry when I'm gone" chills me. Those are desperate words coming from a child (from anyone actually). Is he prone to hysterics or over-dramatizing situations? If so, I'd give it a few days to settle down if you don't think he's in any danger - and then talk with him. If, however, he is not a child that over dramatizes the things happening in his life, then I would take his cry for help very seriously and act on it.

Thanks Lisa, and everyone. There was more to the conversation, but would have taken a whole page to tell you all of it. I don't think he's truely serious about running away. He said he's be more afraid of what would happen WHEN he got caught, not IF he got caught. I do think that there is at least SOME truth, so I have cause to be worried, but I'm still not convinced that its as much as he said. I love the kid, but didn't we all stretch the truth when we were kids to see how far it would get us? LOL I don't know from first hand experience, being so far away, but from what the grandmother said, maybe he is.

I saved the whole IM conversation and the one withthe grandmother as well. So I have "proof" if I need it for anything.

[Robin]

Oh Jaimie, I truly hope everything works out OK. You poor thing - what a mess to get involved with. It's a sad situation. Good luck

[Minis On The Edge]

I asked about the kids and how she thought things were going. Long story short she says that he likes to make up stories. Proceeded to tell me some of the naughty things he told the neighbor girls and how he listens in to the A"adult conversations" and then tells his buddies how Grandpa is getting a "million" dollars for being a disabled vet. LOL

When I first read your post, I did not write anything because I have seen so many different situations like this when I worked for the Chicago public schools. Some were ligit cases of abuse. Others were stretch and some were completely untrue. Kids now-a-days know the law is on there side and can and do try and use it against there parents.

I do say keep an eye on things but NEVER make a promise to a child that you won't say anything. The sentences that follow can mean there life. So always say something like "Well what is it that is so secretaive that you want me to promise" and always answer there question with a question and eventually you'll find out what you need to know without YOU making any promises.

I really do hope things turn out well for him though. He is leaving himself opened to be hurt and if he is caught "Crying wolf" no one will ever beleive him if it happens for real

[Deb]

Jamie, I know this is really hard on you emotionally. You certainly don't want to betray the trust of this child, but he needs help. He may have asked you not to tell anyone, but that is his subconscious absolving him of the responsibility of telling authorities. He's counting on you to tell the things he can't tell. (I used to be a teacher and one of my specialized fields was working with abused kids so I can say that based on experience)

Your instincts are 100% correct about what to do. Call the school and ask to speak to the counselor. They're legally obligated to take your call seriously and begin their own investigation. They won't involve you at all, because technically, your report is heresay. However, (and it's a big however), they *will* begin their own investigation and start talking to his teachers and looking for all the warning signs. They're trained in what to look for. Your name won't come up and what they see and hear is how they will base their report to social services.

It takes a lot of courage to do this, but you're strong, and obviously, you're also a very loving person. Whatever the reason, this child needs help and I'm glad he reached out to you to find it. The best help you can give him is to get the trained professionals at his school to start the process.

Deb

[lil buttah]

I would definately talk to the school. Grandparents, even the best ones sometimes only see what they want to see. The naughty things he's doing may be him acting out because of whats going on in the home. Kids who don't get attention in the home or get negative attention will act out by doing anything to get attention outside of the home. I am best friends with my kids grandmother(paternal). She has a grandaughter who has done drugs and done a lot of illegal things that i've seen first hand and no matter how many times I would try to tell her about them she refused to believe it. I finally gave up, but as you can see no matter how close peple are sometimes they don't really know. I am definately not an expert but thats my opinion.

[Minis On The Edge]

Especially since the grandparents are the "Fathers" parents!! I would call the counseler if I had doubts for sure. Better safe than sorry :lol:

[hydroped]

Hi Jamie,

First of all - please understand what I would do - and what I would suggest for your or anyone else to do are two completely different things. What I'd suggest for you to do - is really consider what you were told - compare it to what you have seen. Consider that perhaps there are things you don't see that may contribute to the things you do. Do you feel this child is truthful? Is it possible that even though the younger child may do the same things as this one and they're treated different because the behavior is age appropriate for one and not the other? Or that the older child does things that deliberately goad his parents? Kids do act out - they are smart and they can do things deliberately to get attention and sympathy from others outside their immediate family group. That's one possibility. The other is that this child is crying out for help and is desperate for anyone to listen. I don't like the "they'll be sorry when I'm gone" that sounds very desperate and it would worry me a great deal that this child actually is suffering mental, emotional and some physical abuse. The thing is you have to determine how you feel about it since he told you. What I'm reading, and what we're all asked to judge on is heresay.. we didn't hear it directly from the child and haven't seen anything of the situation. So if it's a serious problem or an acting out young man.. we really can't tell. I'd suggest taking a step back for just a moment - taking a really deep breath and pretending that this didn't happen to you - pretend it happend to your best friend and they asked you for your advice .. what would you tell your best friend to do? If you can envision what you'd tell someone you really care about who's been given this decision, then that advice is the best that you should follow.

That's the advice I'd give you. Do what in your heart you feel is the right thing to do - that advice that you would give your best friend.

If it was me on the other hand.. I tend to say hang the consequences when it comes to situations where I feel something can be done. If it was my cousin, and if I believed the child was having to deal with emotional abuse I'd definitely be on the phone to my cousin to say what the heck is going on here and if you can't treat that child like a human being then I'll send a plane ticket and he can move in with me! Again - that's not what I'd advise to anyone but I remember as a kid all I ever heard from my parents was that I was no good - dad liked words like "sissy" "lazy" "shiftless" and "worthless" - when I was 4 my mom drove me around the block and told me to pick a house that looked good and she'd drop me off there because I was a bad child and we'd all be happier if I lived somewhere else. She continued saying that - not just to me but to other people until I was about 15 and she said it to my best friend's mom. Without a seconds hessitation Maxine said that I was a great kid and if my mom didn't want me she'd take me- and she was serious! That was the first time in my whole life I ever heard anyone say I was a good person and that I was wanted somewhere. So yea kids can be manipulative - they can also be abused by their parents, and it doesn't have to be just physical. So what I'd do doesn't really matter. What matters is how you feel and what you feel is right to do and how deeply you're willing to pursue this based on what you believe and feel.

Either way - no matter what at least the kid has a way to vent, someone to talk to and if you end up betraying that trust.. like I would - then it's a matter of explaining and being solid in your explanation. Promising to keep a secret about a kids crush on another kid is totally different than having someone say they wish they were dead but don't tell. It sounds to me like you promised not to tell before he told you what the secret was.. there are some things you just cannot promise to keep secret - there are some things that by the nature of our being if nothing else, and also by law that we're obligated to say to try to protect those who cannot protect themselves.

At the end of the day though it isn't about what any of us think, or what we would do - it's about what you believe and how you feel. And that no matter what you decide it will be the right decision for you because you're the one who's seeing and hearing these things and we aren't. And you can only judge by the things at hand- what you hear, what you see, what you believe and how you feel inside.

It's a heavy decision but for what ever reason - it's been given to you to make. And with that I appologize for how long my reply is and if I've offended anyone.

-David

[heidiiiii]

Hey there. I am sorry you are going thru this dilemma. You said in your post that the child was sent to a place for emotionally challenged children for a year and that the state was involved in that somwhat. You must think about the fact that an agency wouldnt house a child for that long if they didnt think something was wrong. Does he take medication that you know of? I dont know what I would do. I think I would call the child and family agency in his state. If they are already in their records they will know what is going on. Come heck or high water that child will get help, if it is from his family or from himself.

My daughter had a situation where her close friend told her she had been sexually abused by her older brother for years. She didnt tell us. What she did do was she wrote about it in her english class journal. The school took her aside and talked to her. Long story short, the girl was diagnosed as bipolar, went into a hospital for a little while, is on medication, and is doing great. But they are not friends anymore. The girl blamed my daughter for telling. But she did the right thing and I told her I was proud of her.

If this is going to weigh heavy on your mind, I would just call the authorities. I feel if you call his parents and he is being abused, it would make it worse on him. If he is having mental or emotional problems you will help him more then you will ever know. You dont want to have the guilt of knowing something could happen and it did.

I hope this helps you in your decision.

I will be thinkig about you.

[milly mandy]

you must speak to someone about thismy x husdand was saying things to my son who was 9 at the time my x was a drinker i made my x leave and contacted social services. my son is 14 now and doing great but he still remembers his fathers words which are the same as this young lad is hearing,i would act now before things get bad the boy must be hurting as he came to you i would speak to grandparents i think you will find you r doing right any careing mother would do the same.

[Irene]

Hi Jamie..I am so sorry to hear about your dilema..It is a very tough situation and well, unless you are going thru it, it's very difficult to say what you should do...I agree with Kathie tho...perhaps the best thing you could do for now, is to keep the lines of communication open with your cousin's son...give him an outlet to vent with an adult he can trust...Kathie is right when she says that some school counselors aren't terribly good at what they are supposed to do...I know this from firsthand experience..My older daughter really put me thru the wringer when she was a teenager...drinking, stealing, lying, cutting school, running away, basically anything she could do to "get me" she did...She always accused me of being harder on her than I was with her sister who is 13 months younger...and she was right...but there was a reason for this ...first...she was the older one and should have known better and second...her sister didn't do the things that she did...but try to explain that to a teenager....There is a song where the lyrics went..."You can't talk to a psycho like a normal human being" and in my case...it was, you can't talk to a teenager like a normal human being...there was nothing I could have said or done to make the situation better so against my better judgement, I heeded the advise of the school counselor and got my daughter into therapy....before even knowing my daughter, the therapist recommended anti-depressants (which my daughter refused to take...thank goodness!) and in the end, after thousands of dollars were spent on counseling (not easy when you are a single parent)...I discovered that my suspicions were right on the mark...she was simply going thru teenage angst and her so called friends were giving her advise on how to drive me out of my mind...It is very difficult to deal with the teen years when you are right there...it is even more difficult when you are far away...You have no way of knowing the day to day dynamics of the family and you have no way of knowing just how much of what your cousin's son is telling you is 100% true or how much he is being influenced by his peers. It could be true that his parents are abusive or it could be that in his eyes they are...It's hard to tell unless you see it with your own eyes and even then you can't be sure since kids can be as sweet as pie when it comes to member outside of the household and the devil on earth when it comes to immedient family members...So bottom line, listen to what he says, let him have you as an outlet for his frustrations and let him know that his situation is just for now, it's not forever....and that tomarrow things may look a whole lot better than they do today. Incidently, today, my daughter is doing quite well...she enlisted in the Navy..she is currently a photographer for the Navy and is waiting to hear from The Art Institute in San Diego where she is hoping to go to school once she finishes her enlistment duties...and best of all...she let's me know that she appreciates me for the way I raised her and is glad that I am her mom...

[JaimieMarvon]

First of all THANK YOU EVERYONE!!! I truely appreciate all the support and advice.

I just got done IM'ing with the mother. Just a little chit chat and then I asked how the boys were doing. Mentioned that I was IM'ing with her son the other night and he sounded "down" (I played it low). She says that he is "down" and that some things are going on, but they are working on them. Then she says "It's 'R' (the father) again, he's being an A**hole." but then she clammed up and said she didn't want to talk about it right now.

So at least now I know that she is aware of stuff. But I have a feeling they (she & hubby) will argue for a while and he will "make amends" and she will go back to the same old thing. I'm not gonna let it drop. I will make sure that I talke to both her and the son seperately to get a idea of how things are going. And maybe even talk to the grandmother again. I will wait to contact the school or family services.

I feel "better". I'll be able to sleep more tonight. At least something is happening and she is "aware" for the most part. I'm not going to betray the trust just yet.

....THEN as I typed this post the boy IM's me. First he says Thankyou for listening, then he tells me everything worked out. I was very confused. He told me that they all sat down as a family last night and talked. I asked a few more questions and he said he's the one who initiated the talking.

Now I'm really CONFUSED!!

[SuzyQ]

I have a feeling she figured out that he told you what was going on.

[lil buttah]

Well hopefully he's telling the truth. I would just keep the line of communication open with him. Maybe even suggest a future visit with him visiting you. He may open up when he isn't around his parents. I know with school in session it would be hard but there are always vacations. It would get him away from things for a few days and give him something to look forward to. It sounds like he needs a positive influence in his life,and you could be that person to get him through the tuff times.

[Anya]

Seriously I have been in this situation before, the child was 14.

His parents were very abusive towards him (no physically violence) but I managed to talk to the mother and son together. Now the boy lives with his brother so that worked out nicely and the last time I saw him he was going to college and very happy with the way things worked out. Plus he was talking to his mother again!;)

NEVER call family services this is really unfair on the child and the family as a whole. Personally I would only ever do this if I had absolute proof that the child was being physically harmed, starved and neglected in general. Knowing me I'd probably look after the kid myself instead of calling in so called proffessionals. Kids need love and trust not a bunch of services who they cannot relate to. It could put more stresses on the child the child might never trust a person again and feel like the whole world is against them.

No matter what children always love their parents and any outside involvement could make a child feel guilty and we don't want that. If this child happened to be put into care because of you calling family services could you live with the fact the child might even be worse off in care?

Not only that but you may never be able to contact the child to see how they are.

Keep talking to the child if you can, take them out to cheer them up or try to befriend the parent.If you feel that you are responsible for this childs wellbeing then couldn't he live with you? At least you would know he was safe and not in some care home.

You could contact or tell other family members for now. If you can't do that then keep talking to the child.

If you really feel worried for this child and want to help have you thought finding out if you could look after him and then he could still see his own family?

You see there is no point being concerned now and then get services involved to let them deal with it. The truth is this child trusts you and tells you things he doesnt want anyone else to know to me that is a great thing. If you decide to tell someone you could lose that form of trust and probably hate yourself for it in the longrun.

Be strong and I hope that this boy and his family will work everything out.:lol:

Ok I just read on your first PM that this kid is your cousin's son?

Take him to live with you or some other family member. That is my personal opinion and what I would do. Then you could start from there and see if I could get the boy a counsillor maybe and offer the parent's some kind of help (not through you of course). That way the boy is at a safe distance and with the person he trusts (you). I'd hate to think that this kid could be put into care when you obviously care for him alot.

In these situations it's either all or nothing right?

Hope everything works out ;)

[JaimieMarvon]

THANK YOU EVERYONE for your opinions and views. I believe this has been a situation of Yes, there was/is something going on, as well as overactive "story telling" by the young boy.

In the few days that followed my initial post, whenI was freaking out, I IM's with the maternal grandmother and then the mother a day afterwards. I did not tell either one what the boy had told me in confidence. I asked the grandmother if she thought things were good at the home. She told me lots of crazy things that the boys says that he makes up alot of stuff, some silly and some mean. As well as he is very nosey an sneakily listens to adult conversations, etc. She blamed it on the style of parenting. They do not follow through with much discipline and children will test their limits as far as they can. Which I do believe ... to a point.

When I asked the mom how the boys were, she mentioned that they were "OK", but something was going on, "Hubby was being a real jerk, but it has been taken care of and won't happen again", but then clammed up and didn't want to talk about it.

I think she is at least aware of whatever the situation is now and will realize that if Hubby is being bad to the son she will do something about it. It just may take a little while. She's not the type to leave her husband. She didn't leavehis sorry a** when he was CONVICTED of credit card fraud ($20,000) and LET GO go on probation. His excuse was that he wanted to provide better things for his family. They had gotten a new computer, ride on lawn mower, air hocky table for the kids, fixed the pool, season passed to Disney and a few other places. (they live in Orlando). Stuff was repossessed and the kids both know what happened.

I've spoken to the boy since and he assures me that HE took it upon himself to have a family conversation to tell his parents that he was not happy about what was going on and that things are fine now.

I find it kind of odd that if the boy was really having the troubles he told me and was so "afraid" of his father that he would be able to stand up to him and have a family meeting of his own at age 13.

Next week I will talk to the mother on the phone and try to get her to talk to me about the problems at home. See if I can find out what it really going on. Now that its been a while I will be ableto get more info outof her. I do know that the father is favorable to the younger son and "meaner"/harder on the older one. Says he is older and should know better. I have seen it for myself. I did not feel that it was anything other than that when I was there 2 years ago, but things can progressively get worse like that.

Thank you again.

[JaimieMarvon]

If anyone remembers this post from YEARS ago.... ( I was looking for other information and came across this)  The short story from the very LONG saga is that the mother was most of the problem. She told A LOT of lies, which she taught the children and the father was no special treat himself.  They are now divorced.  So much BS went on that i disowned her and will never talk to her again. The boy is now a "grown man" and still has so many issues, but is also a constant liar so we do not talk either.  Its a long sad story of woe and what I believe might be some bipolar issues, narcissism, etc.    The mom even faked a suicide attempt at one point to get the attention of a boyfriend.  

[havanaholly]

That sort of behavior is not necessarily bipolar (I have an adult bipolar son with some psychosis who is strange, but sweet and honest and scary intelligent).  At least the outcome seems consistent with what was going on before.