Pinterest 2.0

[rodentraiser]

This thread is really about two things.

First, although many of you already put a copyright on your photos, I urge that all of you do so from now on.

I was recently looking up images of miniatures on Google and when I clicked on a picture, it led me back to Pinterest nearly 98% of the time instead of to the original artist. This means two things: that I would have to go through that entire Pinterest page to find the item to see if that picture led back to the original maker and also, that the average picture on Google has now been copied from other Pinterest sites so often that the original maker is now completely unknown and/or very difficult to find.

What brought this about is the second part of this thread. I think we've all seen Kim Saulter's wonderful shabby chic kitchen with the little Hallmark stove and the pantry in a closet. Well, today I had to let two web sites know that the shabby chic kitchen they included in their list of pictures of real house rooms was actually Kim's miniature kitchen. It's nice when a miniature room is done so well that it's mistaken for a real room. But it's not so nice when you know these pictures are being taken off of Google and Pinterest by architectural companies and magazines and being posted, without credit, on these same sites because they didn't or couldn't verify the authenticity of the photo.

I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on this.

 

[Elsbeth]

Somewhat related - I've been using a reverse image search to find original images, and sometimes it helps. It doesn't always lead you somewhere, but sometimes it does. Here it is:

https://www.tineye.com/

 

[Elsbeth]

And my opinion...I wish I could filter out pinterest hits for images...there are so many. It really dilutes the crafting scene.

I try to give credit if I know who did it, and if I remember to add it to my pinterest entry I do, but I know I skip it a lot. I am part of the problem.

[Elsbeth]

I'm going to play devil's advocate for a moment...isn't a miniature scene (like Kim Saulter's kitchen) almost an interior design model? Which might be acceptable for an interior design site to list as eye candy. 

[Sable]

Pinterest is based on an honor system. The only recourse one has is to report the infringement to Pinterest and they will remove it.

Im glad I do the final edit on our club's newsletter every month. Contributors tend to include photos from sites like Pinterest and Greenleaf without credit. I have to ask them to either delete it or post a source. Twice the comment back was, "I found it on Pinterest so it's free reign". I then requested that they read the copyright rules under the Terms of Service.

[shannonc60]

It's a bit of a hornet's nest and yeah I hate it when you google search and all you get is pinterest links. I often see my own photos on there, often not credited and agree I should watermark my photos. But I also see them on facebook too, uncredited. It's a difficult one as I do kind of agree that if you put your photo into the public domain, then it is kind available for anyone to use as they choose. Who's going to be extradited from their state or country to fight charges of copyright breach at this scale? No-one.

[thresadep]

4 hours ago, shannonc60 said:

It's a bit of a hornet's nest and yeah I hate it when you google search and all you get is pinterest links. I often see my own photos on there, often not credited and agree I should watermark my photos. But I also see them on facebook too, uncredited. It's a difficult one as I do kind of agree that if you put your photo into the public domain, then it is kind available for anyone to use as they choose. Who's going to be extradited from their state or country to fight charges of copyright breach at this scale? No-one.

Yep. Its the evils of the internet.,Post it public, it is public. Don't want people using your images, don't post in public. There are no internet police so even if it is against terms of service, what can you really do? Sorry not to seem like a  *B* 

If a person  wants their pictures protected, then by all means, do what you can. I have seen where people put a name on the picture in the corner or something. Then again some people can Photoshop  that out.  For me, its just a picture. I don't have the time to police where and when it is used. If someone thinks they are that good ( laugh) then more power to them.

[Minis On The Edge]

I must put my 2 cents in because when Pinterest first started, I disliked it because after so many reposts, people couldn't find the originator. Then you have people who downright do things to keep it from leading back to you (the originator). But, as I've said before when this topic came up, if you don't want something to show up or don't want certain people to see your work, you really can't post it online ANYWHERE. There is always a way that it will show up on Pinterest no matter what you do. I just go with the flow.. internet means NO Privacy it seems. People today do not believe in copyrights anymore either. We have several members who has had their work showcased as "full scaled" home items or scenes lol. I know I have had, "this old house" contact me for mixing copper tape wire with hard wire for my home.  They said it's completely unsafe. I told them that rule doesn't apply in miniature and they replied back, then I should be doing miniatures instead of putting people's lives in danger lol. I again told them it's a dollhouse and finally they "got it" lol  I also had someone tell me that my paint technique to age hardware didn't hold up and that after just a few days, the painted finish on their door handle was coming off lol. I told them this was for a dollhouse so it held up fine for mine lol  

[Sable]

Many of you know that I am a copycat. Real life modern is my inspiration so I have to custom build my interiors.  But I always ask for permission and or post the source of my inspiration on social networks.  When I was looking for inspiration for the Summer Kitchen I went to Houzz and found what I wanted with a link to the Architect. I emailed him and asked to copy his facade and post pictures on the web. He graciously gave me permission. The first post in the Summer House gallery gives him credit:

 http://www.greenleafdollhouses.com/forum/?app=gallery&module=gallery&controller=browse&album=7166

[rodentraiser]

I understand that when things are put on the internet, there isn't a great deal you can do to keep them private. I'm more concerned with just two things: passing someone's work off as your own and less seriously, not crediting the author so if anyone has any questions about a posted item, they don't know who to ask. I have many, many pictures I keep private that are there just because they showed a technique or gave me an idea I don't want to forget. I may post some if I find them on the internet and on eBay and Craig's List (and I'm notoriously bad at remembering who did what), but I usually post where I found them and if someone wants me to take them down or give the pics credit, I would definitely do so.

As for copying someone else's work, I think that's a harsh word to use for being influenced by what someone else has done. We all get influenced by everything we see. We have to be, or we'd never create anything. As it is, one thing I've noticed is when certain terms are put into search engines for certain house and room styles, a few pictures (most of them made by talented people here on the forum) seem to always show up. I call those pictures the gold standard to which I need to aspire. It could be the picture owners aren't really happy that their work is spread all over the internet, but if that ever happened to me, I'd feel like I finally "made it" in miniatures. Imagine, so many people saw your work and liked it so much they had to post a picture of it somewhere. That's immortality, baby!

[Minis On The Edge]

I think copying someone's work is completely WRONG. Being inspired to create your own item, is something I'm okay with. Showing someone's work and making it seem like it's your own, I consider completely WRONG too. I've had that issue too many times myself by people who know better. It's sickening actually. But Pintrest is a bookmark of what's posted online. I've seen private photos on pintrest because someone did a screenshot and posted it on pintrest. It's really sad actually. It shows a lack of respect not just for the artist but for creativity in general and the customers that own the stuff they bought from artists. I have customers that don't houses I build for them, shown to everyone so that their item will stay a OOAK. It's why if a client mentions they don't want me to make the album of a house I build for them public, I don't. That way, no one tries to replicate it. There is enough "real life" items to copy, why copy from a miniaturist? I have about 9 houses with no online pictures because people copy too much now a days, and don't even give credit. It also cheapens true artists work. I had a customer buy something from someone who said they can "make a house like mine for half the price" smh....the customer got it and told me about it afterwards and said they'd never do that again because the quality wasn't there. The buyer gave it away to someone cause the quality wasn't there. The issue I had with it was, this person kept on recreating whatever I'd make (that I showed public) and kept on trying to recreate the same thing quickly and contact people who commented on MY pictures on Facebook that they had one just like it for sell too. Now that's TOTALLY tacky IMO. I take a while to decide how to bash or create something. A person who copies another miniaturist work lacks imagination and shouldn't try and make themselves sound like they are "just as good". That's just my 2 cents though.  in the big scheme of things, I feel what goes around comes around. 

 

[havanaholly]

No one who has seen your work could ever mistake an imitator's for it, my dear heart!

[Debora59]

It truly is a double edged sword isn't it.  I get a little ''possessive'' to put it mildly, of ideas that took me months or even years to come up with. I would be livid if someone else tried to take credit [ or copy ] for sure. And on the other hand I feel really flattered that someone reposted one of my creations because they think its worthy of noticing. I guess there is that line between infringement and admiration that shouldn't be crossed.

[havanaholly]

Passing off someone else's work as original is theft of intellectual property, plain & simple.

[Minis On The Edge]

I normally would've closed this topic because things like this can get so "heated" but I think maybe people just don't realize how offensive it can be to do that (steal ideas and call it your own). But I think it's something we can all learn from.

I liken it to going to a mini or craft show and looking at the creations at a table and saying, "I can do that too, why would I spend ____?" .  I think in the early years,  we all felt that way and that's what caused us to "try our hand" at minis. Many of us would never say that out loud at a table but have thought it. Some have tried it and humbly accepted that they aren't as skilled and then others actually recreate something similar and slap their own name on it and say "it came to them in a dream". Others are inspired and created something all together different and even surprised themselves. All in all,  Pintrest has some good and some bad potential. It all depends on the person who's doing the pinning though. 

[Minis On The Edge]

1 hour ago, havanaholly said:

No one who has seen your work could ever mistake an imitator's for it, my dear heart!

Thank you Holly  You are sweet, but, it's happened more than I care to count. Not just me though. So many artists deal with this all the time too. 

[Minis On The Edge]

1 hour ago, Debora59 said:

It truly is a double edged sword isn't it.  I get a little ''possessive'' to put it mildly, of ideas that took me months or even years to come up with. I would be livid if someone else tried to take credit [ or copy ] for sure. And on the other hand I feel really flattered that someone reposted one of my creations because they think its worthy of noticing. I guess there is that line between infringement and admiration that shouldn't be crossed.

I agree  

[shannonc60]

Everything has been done. There are direct copies, yes, but let's face it, there isn't much that's new out there. It's just rehashing everything that came before. Miniatures in general are copies of real life items.

[Sable]

I hope I made myself clear when I said I am a copycat. I get permission from the original real life house designer and turn it into a miniature. I'm not taking from a fellow miniaturist. I'm an artist doing a 3D portrait of a real house. I see nothing WRONG with that. Help me understand if I am incorrect.

[Minis On The Edge]

Sable, you get permission so I don't consider you the type of copycat that steals ideas or try and undermine other artists. I think you made it clear earlier.  

[Caseymini]

One thing I do to keep track of my stuff. I put a category on my Pinterest site.  It is "My minis on Pinterest". Every time I find one of my photos on a site, I add it to that category.  There are quite a few.  The result?  I have run across two people that have my blog as a category on their Pinterest site! It's kind of cool to find people that are respectful.  I have only found one that didn't lead back to my site.

[shamrockgirl18]

On 11/7/2016, 7:34:08, Sable said:

Pinterest is based on an honor system. The only recourse one has is to report the infringement to Pinterest and they will remove it.

Im glad I do the final edit on our club's newsletter every month. Contributors tend to include photos from sites like Pinterest and Greenleaf without credit. I have to ask them to either delete it or post a source. Twice the comment back was, "I found it on Pinterest so it's free reign". I then requested that they read the copyright rules under the Terms of Service.

I found photos of some of my original work before and reported it to Pinterest, and it was not removed, so even that's not always an option.

[shamrockgirl18]

Also I have a question re: copyrights on images. I have seen photos on various sites that have a large watermark, but I find it takes away from the image of the item I am admiring. The other option is to make a small copyright symbol that's on an edge or a corner, but that easily be cropped out using basic resizing/editing software. What's the best way to go about copyrighting photos?

[rodentraiser]

When I think of the word 'copy', I don't mean an exact brick by brick copy. I really do mean influenced by. For instance, I saw what could be an American Colonial dollhouse if it had siding that was instead stuccoed yellow with blue shutters. There was no way you could mistake that for anything but a French house. So I decided that since the Glencroft I'm working on is going to be a French house, I would make it a beighish yellow with blue shutters. Is that copying or not? Look at the book we were all discussing a while back - the one with the French dollhouses in it. The woman who wrote that book printed instructions on how to make the things in her houses. The cover of that book is the reason I put a center hall in the Glencroft. Am I copying something? In both cases, yes, you could say I was. But the end result will be unique and belong to me.

Likewise, if I see another Glencroft with a center hall and no stairway on the side of the house, will I get upset thinking someone "copied" me? No, of course not. I wouldn't dream of thinking that design change belonged to me alone. Of course, I'm not making a living from selling one of a kind dollhouses, either. So I do have to consider that.

What's really funny is that I started the Glencroft with the sole idea of making an exact copy of a Glencroft I saw that Larry Hecox built in the 80s, as near as I could remember it. That was because I was so impressed with the work he did. I've veered far away from that now because making a French house appealed to me more, but there will be certain things in this Glencroft that Larry's work has influenced me on. I want to set the carpet into the bedroom floor, for one, and putting the little window on the side of the kitchen in the front instead - well, seeing Larry's house is what gave me that idea because that's what he did.

I think we just have to keep in mind the distinction between copying exactly and being influenced by another person's work, is all. I still think of the Dollhouses to Dreamhouses book where I saw a little bathroom under the stairs of a Harrison. Because they did it once in print, does that mean I can never put a bathroom under the stairs? Of course not.

 

[Elsbeth]

While we are on topic of Glencroft and inspirations....I've used this Glencroft for a lot of inspiration:

http://tynietoy.org/ArchiveMyCollection.html

I never thought to wall off a room like that...brilliant! I put that knowledge to good use. Of course, I will never come close to having my house look as great as that, but I did try. And in trying, it ended up being a lot better than it was. So there is inspiration and there is copycatting, but there is also learning/gaining knowledge involved, too.