Rant about online sales

[WyckedWood]

You would not believe how hard it is to buy 1/12 doll blanks ( quality, porcelain, unpainted, unstrung). That's not to say that there aren't websites willing to take your money, but you'll have to hound them with emails months later and maybe if youre lucky get a response or more likely an excuse. Or many excuses. So unprofessional! I don't understand how someone can have a website and offer items for sale, even using PayPal and have no sense of responsibility to communicate with buyers if they aren't going to process those sales. I thought, well maybe the process just takes longer than I thought...so I wait and wait and it's only until I email the seller(s) (plural, this has happened FOUR different times in the past several months) that I realize my order isn't even close to being started on, let alone filled and sent. And no communication! There are so few of them selling that they must feel there is no rush, they've got the market cornered.  I've been in this conversation with my husband as he witnesses my frustrations, he says it's not practical to buy my own kiln and learn to do my own porcelain from molds because you can buy a blank for $15-30 and since I'm not going into sales it's just a personal use thing. Well, yeah but I can't put my hands on the blanks. I can't go to any store and buy them. And thats beside the fact that the people selling blanks are middle men who are getting the actual molds from the artists who are also very few and far between! And those artists are getting older/retiring etc etc. There are very few people working in porcelain dolls. So I feel that I need to get my own molds from the artists while I still can.  Ok, so I've been buying from eBay. There are very few quality artisan blanks available to purchase there. I pay, they ship, that's what I love about eBay. Well rookie that I am it took time to realize that every artist working in 1/12 is not going to make their dolls the exact same size. In fact the size range is wildly different between artists. If you were going to use several dolls in the same house or scene you'd almost have to buy them all originating from the same artist molds. So I have built up a selection of maybe 5-6 different doll blanks and none of them could be used in the same house. 

I have had good experiences too but those are becoming the exceptions as I get further in to this. Minikitz is the best. She emails right away if she has a question and ships in a day. But. There are only a few dolls available thru them that I'm interested in. Same with minidollkits (Colvin) she's quick to process and professional but I can't afford a $50 doll blank every time I want to make a doll and prefer porcelain to resin. And this frustrating experience isn't just with the blanks but people selling supplies too. And one of the companies (I'm not going to name names) has been considered the main supplier for the doll hobbyist and just try getting an email answered. I mean it's really kind of startling to think about and realize but the people who started these businesses back in the heyday of the hobby in the 80s, those that are still around...aren't going to be around forever. Obviously. Well that goes for the doll artists too. I don't know many 25 year olds that are going to take the time to sculpt and create a doll and make a mold in 1/12 that can be poured in porcelain. They would just use polymer clay. So who's going to pick up the mantle after those artists retire. And no offense to anyone who likes polymer clay dolls but I personally just prefer porcelain for myself. Ok so, long story short but I'm going to start saving my pennies. I figure for a kiln, the supplies needed, porcelain slip, etc, and the molds from the artists I would want (those are $50-$75 each) I would have start up costs somewhere around $1500. And as time goes on the molds are only going to get more expensive as they start to get less available. I've worried about the health risks with working with porcelain but there are risks with almost all artists mediums. 

I actually feel a little better now. Thanks for listening lol 

[havanaholly]

You go right ahead and rant!

[WyckedWood]

lol thanks :)

[Minis On The Edge]

I totally get it. I love your thought process too regarding this. Polymer clay has health risks. Paint, air dry clay etc. I say, get your own kiln and have fun! You obviously have a great talent because you dress and paint those dolls Splendidly! I look forward to seeing your next doll adventure!  

[Debsrand56]

That was absolutely fascinating reading.  I had no idea.  I'm glad you're planning on getting the kiln and molds.  Once you do that, you could start selling the blanks and recoup your costs (or even finished dolls, if you have the inclination to paint and dress them for others).  It sounds like you'd be better than about 90% of the sellers out there!

[Thimble Hall]

I understand and maybe understand them too. It could be that their sales are small so they only pour when they need to or that they have the greenware available but wait till they have a kiln load to fire the dolls and they may wait for another kiln load for china painting, that was always pretty standard back in my day. but it is not an excuse

If you see a regular porcelain doll but don't like the painting on many of them I have found just recently most have acrylic painted faces and it cleans off leaving a blank.. Of course you won't get the lovely old wrinklies or maybe not fairies  etc.

Look on Craigs list for a kiln or check out the kiln sellers some of them have refurbished ones.

Which dolls is it that you like the molds of, I have been promising myself some new character molds as my doll house ones are fairly basic. I saw undressed  dolls somewhere just yesterday but they had painted faces I think.. I have to address this problem myself as there is nothing out there finished that I like or am not satisfied with, I hate the unseparated fingers etc and can do nothing about that once fired but if I pour and fire myself I can. I am more bothered about the standard of my painting but need to test myself. I told you before if I do my dolls I will send you some to paint. Help me decide which new molds to buy and we can see where it goes.

[Goldenrodfarm]

I have looked for porcelain dolls online but not found much variety, the startup idea sounds fantastic.  I have never been very good at the painting eyes part, but would love to have some porcelain dolls.  So I say go for it! 

[WyckedWood]

 

Weve been checking our Craigslist and other local ads for a kiln, but I'm very very leary of buying used because I don't know enough about what I'm buying or what I need and don't need. And I would want to study an instruction manual, a used one may not come with instructions and I would have zero idea what I'm doing. We checked in to doing the electric work for the higher voltage and it's not too expensive so that's doable. As far as doing sales, I don't know about that, its not something I'm really interested in. I thought about going to my sister for the money, she's a big time doll collector and I could supply her with finished dolls to repay her. She's a collector not a maker. My husband says that's not the best idea, lol probably not. If I could find the right deal on Craigslist and the seller willing to help me understand what I'm buying that would help a lot, the prices seem to range around 200-400 used. 

Ok molds, of the makers that I'm aware of (and I'm just getting in to this and have limited experience but I have researched what I can find). These are the artists I'm aware of :

Stacy Hoffman: beautiful dolls (retired) have seen blanks available from sellers (rarely) but no molds for sale

Janna Joseph: passed away no new molds or website 

Doreen Sinnett: has a website and sells her molds but no blanks. Dolls are petite but not as petite as some others. She has two female dolls that I really like, but have not seen in person. "Celeste 2" (the two is a Roman numeral) , and Brett. I have ordered Brett blank from someone (not from Doreen, she doesn't sell blanks) whether that order was processed I have no idea, emails unanswered. I know my money was put in their bank acct thru PayPal that's all I know. I will know more about the Sinnett dolls when/if I get her. Celeste looks to me like she may actually be too petite but I'm not sure. Her waist line is very small. I'd like to hear your opinion if you look at her site @JeannineDoreen was at one time not selling molds apparently but is back online now. I would order molds from her if I end up doing this. 

Parker Levi:  I bought an African American doll (Parker Levi) to be a companion to Gertie, they were both to be maids in my big house I'm building. Gertie is a Cynthia Howe mold. These two dolls are in no way compatible size wise and couldn't be in the same scene. The Parker Levi doll is much smaller. That's not to say all Parker Levi molds are smallish but that body definitely is and I notice they use the same body for their Mrs Claus. Parker Levi molds sold through House of Caron, many other molds sold thru them but they don't respond to emails or PayPal invoice requests from their website anymore. Have no clue what's going on there but a doll group I belong to on fb, someone said shes still in business but you have to call now. Minikitz also has a selection of Parker Levi dolls but all of their dolls are kits, not blanks so they are prepainted. I bought Gertie through them and just redid her paint myself. 

Cynthia Howe: active website, pretty girls, she would be a seller I would order molds from, no blanks available from her directly but other random sites do sell her blanks.  But I don't know yet how they will compare size wise to the Doreen Sinnett molds. 

Theresa Glisson : I don't know anything about her or if she has a website or molds for sale but I have bought her blanks from a seller on eBay and they are very large for 1/12 and couldnt be in a scene with other 1/12. 

Another name I know, Dawn Adams, but I don't know where or if she sells molds actively. 

So long and short of it, I would be going to Cynthia Howe and Doreen Sinnett for molds. 

Thank you Tracy for those kind words and everyone for the encouragement. 

I understand if it's a long process but no excuse for lack of communicating.

When I go down in my work room later I'll take a picture of several blanks side by side so anyone interested can see the size difference. 

http://www.doreensinnettdolls.com/ladies.html

 

http://cynthiahoweminiatures.com/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=65_11&zenid=8278c3dbfe68b9a55bd6883631bbb837

 

Doreens dolls are a little more expressive. 

 

 

[Thimble Hall]

The thing about the Doreen Sinnet molds is they  are all actual small copies of actual antique dolls, When you pour and fire the greenware from a mold there is about 20% shrinkage in the finished doll after firing , (less in regular ceramic) so if you take the now smaller doll and make a mold from that, pour and fire again a further  20% less, so it is possible to take a 20 inch doll and by repeatedly making molds  you can take  it smaller till you can get it to the size you want.The Sinnet dolls are tiny replicas of the dolls I used to teach.but many of them are childlike and are great for children but not so for adults dolls.

Some of the ones from House of Caron are described as dainty from one maker which suggests to me they are smaller but the legs can be elongated to achieve the height but if dainty they may be out od proportion.. There is a good African American doll on the house of Caron site, Monica, Marlene  something like that. I forget the name but she is heavy  and bosomy I almost bought it a couple of weeks ago. Bear in mind you can adjust the height very slightly when you put the doll together, they are not strung like big dolls often done with pipe cleaners which are wrapped. so it is possible to make them a tiny bit taller or shorter without spoiling them.  One has to shop slowly with doll molds to get the best bang for your buck. Many body molds have additional heads which gives another doll for less. I spent ages on the sites about a month ago and made a list, I just haven't sent it off yet. The Sinnet dolls were on my list but not at the top. I didn't want 6 inch children but she does have some 4 inch which would be good for kids.

I stripped a couple of commercially made dolls last week, dismantled the pipe cleaner bodies and removed the paint etc from their faces, it was acryic, the idea was to repaint them but the features are poor and they have what I call frozen hands,with unfired greenware I can improve on that but not once it is fired of course.

I will take another look at the sites and see. I am going to have to go for this as what is on offer out there is either poor or ridiculously expensive. I just keep putting it off for some reason.

I would be interested in seeing a close up of your blanks so I can estimate just how much pre firing was done on them.

 

edit..one more thing I don't know if any sellers are selling dolls fired in low fire clay, eg what we would call ceramic, but if they are the doll would be bigger by about 15% from a doll poured in porcelain due to the difference in shrinkage, however the ceramic clay is porous and the porcelain clay is vitreous so one would paint them differently

 

[shannonc60]

Gah I have had the same problems too! In fact, one order I never even recieved. I have also thought about getting doll moulds and making them to sell. There is a lady here in Australia who makes them and she would do blanks if you asked her, but she can take a while to get to them too. But you would get them. If you want her details, let me know.

One thing to consider. You can use Liquache (and there are one or two others) which is an air drying slip. I have used it to make tiny dolls’ dolls and I had to bake them in linseed oil to make them hard, but they turn out really good. And it is easy to use and you don’t need a kiln. 

Anyway, if you do get some moulds, I would buy some from you.

[WyckedWood]

Ok I'm happy to take pictures side by side of what I have. My very favorite doll (blank) so far was from the artist Nada Christensen who has passed away. eBay find.  She's gorgeous and scaled beautifully. 

Doreen has the repro dolls but her dollhouse dolls are in another section on her website, these are separate from the antique reproductions. Check the link I posted above. 

[WyckedWood]

Yes, if a miniaturist describes something as "dainty" you know it's going to be really dainty  

[Goldenrodfarm]

I like Doreen’s style better, they are more expressive as you say, but they also look more realistic.

[WyckedWood]

That medium sounds interesting Shannon thanks for the info I'll look into that. Shipping from Australia to US is so high, I haven't looked for sellers there. 

[WyckedWood]

It doesn't help that when you're looking for them on eBay (blanks) they are usually from estate sales and the sellers will just title them "undressed doll", I can understand but they don't know the word blank is the professional term so you really have to try many different search words. They will also not necessarily describe them as porcelain but sometimes bisque or even ceramic. 

[Minis On The Edge]

Patricia Rose has 1/12th scaled molds too. I have maybe 4 of them. Sign up for her email lists as she does have sales on them from time to time. She ships fast too. http://stores.ebay.com/PATRICIA-ROSE-STUDIO  I usually get the molds that can be used for polymer clay though.  

[Thimble Hall]

I went back to my list and I had a mixed list of some of her reproductions and some others. I bought a few. Now I have bitten the bullet I will go back to the house of Caron with my other list. This has been in the works for about a year so it is about time for me. The set I have already I have had a long time but not poured apart from maybe twice but I needed more variety anyway. I shall be looking for character dolls now. Bisque just means fired, it canrefer to ceramic (white or colored  earthenware)  or porcelain.

[WyckedWood]

Thanks Jeannine your expertise and advice is much appreciated!  Which molds do you have now if you don't mind my asking?  If you place an order with House of Caron you have to call, there's an order form on the website and supposedly you can ask for a PayPal invoice but in my experience that didn't work. 

Tracy I knew about Patricia but thought she only had polymer molds. Have you made any of her dolls yet? She does beautiful work. 

@Goldenrodfarm I agree. There really aren't a lot of choices out there. 

 

[Minis On The Edge]

Karin, she used to have both. This past Spring, she did some spring cleaning and had bunches of stuff. I’ve been buying from her for years so have seen so many of her molds selling over the years. I’m friends with her on Facebook so maybe some things she only offered on there. But I know she even was looking for a person to help her with pouring the porcelain for a few weeks and in return, they’d get personal *training  from her (she charges a good price for that now a days). I’ve only used her molds with my daughters for school projects they had and a few times for shower gifts for friends. Dolls are not my strong point though my oldest has a good eye and talent for it. 

*Edit spelling

[WyckedWood]

Ok, thanks for the info Tracy  

[Thimble Hall]

Hi Karin, the dollhouse  molds I have I doubt if anyone knows them It was local company in Washington that made them, I want to say Jones but it may have been Johns, anyway I went to thrir place and bought quite a few doll molds from them but mostly bigger dolls. I never poured the doll molds in my shop I poured them twice for my sister as she wanted the little dolls in the UK. They are packed in my cupboard under the stairs, a marathon job to get my hands on them but I will within the next few days. I seem to remember there is a Mom,, Dad, Granny, Gramps 2 kids and a baby Nothing fancy which s why I wanted the new ones..

The Sinnet dolls  I bought the six pack of  3 1/2 inch children plus the Taylor family and a couple of others. but I stupidly didn't keep a list. I went back on the site execting to see the account but nothing. Those are paid for.

I filled in two forms on the House of Caron then  sent them through the site and they went, then I  e mailed her to request the Paypal  request but the email bounced back, tried a second time and it came back too so now I am not sure what is happening and I bought a fair few from there, it was a very good order and  I did keep a list. I remember phoning them a couple of years ago and it was difficult to order as they were not sure what they had  etc so I gave up that time.

 

So at the moment I am really confused. If I don't hear anything soon I will have to phone.

 

I have one more place to go yet so here's hoping that will be more straightforward

[WyckedWood]

Straightforward is always nice, and such a relief. Especially when you've got a big order to place. I waited weeks for a response from house of Caron and never got one, I was just trying to purchase patterns and a book about wigging. It's the Crowning Glory book which is supposed to be the best of the doll wigging books. I ended up ordering the book thru another site who was out of stock on it and they tried to get it from house of Caron but let's just say that was months ago and I still don't have the book but the second party has my money. Ugh. 

The family on Doreen's site looks like a great value since you get the 5th doll free. And a nice range of people. The little girl in that set is so cute. I also love the doll she uses for Marie Antoinette, I think her name is Monique.

I didn't make it down to my work room today but I'll take some pictures tomorrow of the blanks I have. 

[Thimble Hall]

What a shame about you book  I don't recognize the title so not one I have..

.wrong, wrong, wrong I just went to the bookcase to  see just what I do have and I do have that book if it is the same one. It is only 40 pages and written by Beverley Parker  I also have The Little Doll Artist by the same author and it explains casting and firing. The back age has an advert for Parker Levi Doll dolls   and an address in Florida plus an email addy

Is this what you were looking for Karin?

 

I also found some books from Susan Sirkis from the Wishlist sries number 4 and number 8 Fashions  1840-1845 and Fashions 1885 and also  some 1/12 dress making patterns by Kathi Mendenhall.

 

[WyckedWood]

Yes that's the one. Still hoping it shows up, it was highly recommended. 

[Thimble Hall]

Well I ordered some dollhouse  doll molds. There is one other medium you can use for molds and that is latex. We used to pour doll bodies in it as a composition body then pour the heads in porcelain. I had to stop using it as it was about this time that my latex allergy really started and the longer I did it the worse it got.