Kits, In General

[BigC]

I really like this forum and it's  co inhabitants and the myriad of advice a help on hand...I may not comment on every thread but that dont mean I haven't been reading and educating myself seeing as I'm a complete newbie to this hobby...I really love some of the Americana style house kits and namely Beacon Hill (I would love to build this one day)

But whats concerning me is the quality of the pieces and sizes within...Upon reading a great many posts I get the feeling that some of the parts dont really fit precisely as they should..This would irritate me no end considering the price tag on some of kits. Is this the norm?..or are we just accepting mediocrity from the manufacturers. Should they be doing more on the quality control front of their products?.. Now I know folks like to tinker and adapt but many newcomers may be put off by the lack of preciseness in size in the cutting of the parts..again is this to be expected...Are the aspects raised above really that annoying, how far out are the joints in real terms, have you a tale to tell regarding your particular kit experiences...please relate below..

I'm just putting this out there to gain a little insight as to what people wishing to buy a kit form house can expect upon opening the box and I welcome everyone's views surrounding this subject

Regards

C  

[rodentraiser]

I think with the Greenleaf kits, because of the thinner wood, sometimes you run into problems with the tabs not fitting correctly or having to force some pieces together. That's just the nature of the wood used in their kits and the way it cuts. Remember, though, if there really is a problem or one of the sheets is beyond using, Greenleaf will replace it and they usually do that for free. That's not something every manufacturer does.

Real Good Toys, who makes dollhouses in the standard sized 3/8" thick wood, generally doesn't have the same problem but you can still get wood pieces that are warped. Also, they make a lot of their dollhouses now with MDF, and I hear that's hard to work with.

Some of the other dollhouses you hear about people getting are from companies that have long been out of business. Sometimes the kits are put together differently and that can lead to a problem or maybe the box has been exposed to water or been in a damp basement or even worse, stored on end. That's where you find a lot of warped pieces. That's what happened with my shadow box. It's been discontinued since forever and when I got it and put it together, it leaned. Like this. I wish now I had just made a crooked little witch's hut out of it, but instead I sort of force fit the wood pieces together and although it still leans a little, it's hard to see unless you look for it.

Basically, what I'm saying is there are few problems that can't be solved. It's just they take a little extra work and ingenuity to solve them sometimes.

From Greenleaf kits, I know what to expect and what work needs to be done to make them nice houses. So if something doesn't fit just right, I work on it until it does. The work doing that is offset by how easy it is to customize Greenleaf dollhouses and the fact that you get all the trim and windows and doors (although I almost always upgrade) with the kits, plus the many beautiful styles of kits.

There's only one  kit that I've gotten that I felt should have gone together much, much better for the amount of money they charge and for what I spent on it. I know many other people have bought their kits from this manufacturer and I haven't heard a whisper about their houses being below par, so maybe I just caught them on a bad day. I don't know.

For me, personally, I think if there's any failing with the kits, especially a Greenleaf kit, that would be my fault. I simply don't have the patience some people here have for sanding and spackling. I also lack patience for dry fitting and I seldom read directions. I just go by the pictures or just pick up the wood and start putting it together. So the fact that my houses don't come out first class really isn't the fault of the manufacturer.

As a matter of fact, I've started and sold or given away so many houses I don't think I've even finished one in the last ten years, so at this point I think my skill level is zero anyway. The shadowbox is the closest one to being finished right now and that's been at a standstill for about two months now.

[KathieB]

3 hours ago, BigC said:

I get the feeling that some of the parts dont really fit precisely as they should..

Greenleaf kits are both die stamped and laser cut. The stamping process itself can distort the plywood, causing tabs and slots not to fit precisely, but it's a small issue to whittle and/or sand them into compliance. The laser cut kits are, by the nature of the process, much more precise. If I recall correctly, Holly once remarked that when she was assembling the laser cut lighthouse, it went together so easily and quickly that it was completed before she realized she had forgotten to install a planned staircase.  

As Kelly said above, improper storage can cause problems with warping, although with the Greenleaf kits, minor warping often "fixes" itself when the parts are assembled or can be modified by dampening both sides of the panel and leaving it to dry under heavy weights.

I've not had any experience with other manufacturers.

[havanaholly]

2 hours ago, KathieB said:

...If I recall correctly, Holly once remarked that when she was assembling the laser cut lighthouse, it went together so easily and quickly that it was completed before she realized she had forgotten to install a planned staircase. ...

Kathie recalls correctly; holly was totally unprepared for the ease of assembly of the laser cut.  The die-stamping has interesting issues to solve, but comparing the prices to non-die-stamped kits the Greenleaf prices are quite reasonable.  I recall one Buttercup kit that was mis-stamped a (fairly thick) hair and that was my first kit bash; it was also the first (and LAST!) kit I sealed & primed before punching out, and I lost track of how many double-ended utility knife blades it took to get all the bits out of their sheets.  I also had a couple of the wood sheets in my Glencroft kit that wanted to delaminate, and those sheets contained the half-timbering and other trim bits, so I had lots of fun making repairs (that particular kit was a gift).  I have built other manufacturers' kits and I confess a strong preference for Greenleaf's, both for their attractiveness and ease of building.  I zone out when attending to fiddly stuff like adjusting tabs & slots for fit, sanding and applying shingles and/ or siding and have long, lovely chats with the kit.

[wormwoodz]

Hi Colin, the users above have explained it pretty well, I'm just gonna add my two cents on why I myself, personally, prefer plywood for dollhouse construction than wood or MDF.

Plywood unlike wood is dimensionaly very stable despite humidity and temperature variations, this is due to the cross-graining of the wood on the sheets. Greenleaf kits come in thin plywood sheets with cross-grain on both faces, they are sturdy and slighly flexible but will lay flat and stable after connected in the structure. Sometimes I've found small imperfections such as knots or corrosion marks, so I can't say the plywood grade is very good but as said above they offer replacements if you need so, I usually just fix them myself. When you are painting and adding moisture to the plywood you don't have to worry so much about using products with water, alcool or cetone (polar but less toxic than other solvents), unless you overdo it the binding resins tend to hold it pretty well. With MDF despite having a smooth surface without knots or other imperfections you'll find you need a thicker board to have the same mechanical resistance as a plywood sheet. They also contain a higher amount of binding resins which get released over time, if you haven't sealed it properly they are toxic and will deteriorate papper surfaces and some adesives. Plywood also releases chemicals, but in smaler amounts and is overal a bit more stable. Another advantage of plywood compared to MDF is the ability to easily perfurate it with nails or brads, which makes it easier to hinge or wire. Lastly plywood is very light compared to the other two options, dimensional stability + ease of transportation is a big plus for me, specially in american style dollhouses.

As for the price, I think it's normal considering average plywood prices on the market. I often buy higher grade plywood, it's quite pricey, so I'm okay with using lesser grade for a large dollhouse structure, as long as I take care of any major defects it won't be a problem long term (remember the surface will be hidden under the decor anyway). 

[Mid-life madness]

Great question Colin, and great answers ladies!

[Khadi]

5 hours ago, KathieB said:

Greenleaf kits are both die stamped and laser cut. The stamping process itself can distort the plywood, causing tabs and slots not to fit precisely, but it's a small issue to whittle and/or sand them into compliance. The laser cut kits are, by the nature of the process, much more precise. If I recall correctly, Holly once remarked that when she was assembling the laser cut lighthouse, it went together so easily and quickly that it was completed before she realized she had forgotten to install a planned staircase.  

As Kelly said above, improper storage can cause problems with warping, although with the Greenleaf kits, minor warping often "fixes" itself when the parts are assembled or can be modified by dampening both sides of the panel and leaving it to dry under heavy weights.

I've not had any experience with other manufacturers.

I recently built my first laser cut and had a similar experience.  I was so excited at how easy it was to pop out the pieces and put it together that I built the whole thing the first night without remembering to wallpaper, paint, etc.  LOL

As far as the die stamped Greenleafs go, I invested in a good battery-powered Dremel a few years back.  It makes sanding and cutting so much easier and has really cut back on the splinters.  You just have to remember to use a light-touch because it it very easy to sand too much if you're not paying attention.

[BigC]

Brilliant guys, thank you immensely for you concise answers, sure makes me feel a lot happier about purchasing a kit form house in the future..as I say I have taken a shine to Mikes recent build and also the American Beacon Hill....although a little research would need to be done to get into the mode for the build. I can now buy with confidence (when the time comes) owing to the replies above. For now I'm still on with my first love as a newbie (the Georgian style Town House, scratch build)...But I will be making a purchase when the time is right...Interesting also to note, that there is a fair amount of customizing going on as well...Again people your replies are much appreciated thank you for taking the time out of your day...

Regards C.

[shannonc60]

I sell my own laser cut kits, made mostly from a high quality laser ply and I get a lot of compliments that all the parts fit very precisely. I know that other kits don’t. Also, you should be aware that any and all wood will warp due to even small changes in temperature and humidity in very short periods of time. You pretty much can’t prevent it unless you seal the whole piece, and even then I think it would be hard to completely stop. But in a structure, all pieces brace the other pieces, so then you shouldn’t have any trouble.

[havanaholly]

I call "customizing" bashing and it's a whole lot easier with the 1/8" & 3/16" plywood that Greenleaf uses.

[WyckedWood]

I approach the kit build as an art project. I add textures and other weirdness so the state of the original wood doesn't matter much.  Greenleaf kits or other similar like Dura Craft have always given me a good strong structure. I think it's about what a person is willing to put into it. The GL laser cut is great, I'm not sure how many people know about them though. I haven't seen them advertised anywhere but here.  

[Thimble Hall]

I think it is an each to his own thing. Personally on the whole  I prefer MDF as it is very smooth and  goes together well . It is thicker than Greenleaf ply so windows and doors go in without any trouble about fitting .There is no sanding and the pieces go together exactly .You do have the extra weight  with MDF. it is more expensive too and if you want to change the lay out it is much harder to do.. I am using Greenleaf kits now and I do find them  challenging as I am not good with wood so a lot of work compared to MDF but I think some folks may like that. I made a few dollhouse some years ago and have only recently started again. In those days I only did 1 Greenleaf house and I have to be truthful I didn't like it but it was very different to the others I had done and I approached it in the same way and it just wasn't the way to do it.  So it comes down to what you want. Greenleaf produces some lovely designs, their prices are very reasonable, and they give you the option of changing them without too much effort. I think the smaller houses are better in thin ply, the MDF is too thick and too heavy for them. I have a good few ply kits I  also have some US MDF houses and a couple of British MDF houses so at the moment I reach for what I feel like doing  despite what it is made of.

[havanaholly]

I once built a roombox from MDF that was a kit, and decided then & there that those who like MDF are most welcome to their opinion.  It is just not for me.

[stickyfingers]

Yes, and no. Having worked with wood before on full scale projects, I was also a bit put off by the quality of the product for the price. But also having worked with wood before, I know that if the kits were made of precision cut cabinet grade wood, they would be exceptionally more expensive. Think of the add-on components that you can buy... $20-30 for a door, or $10-20 for a single window, or $2 for a single strip of trim. There's a reason for that, and if the whole kit were made to that standard, they'd cost hundreds, if not thousands of dollars.  

The die cut kits are also made to have most all of the surfaces covered with some other treatment, be it paint, siding, shingles, flooring sheets, wallpaper, etc. so imperfections in the wood and small gaps that need filler are really insignificant. AND the die cut kits are exceptionally light and strong, so fairly sturdy and easily moved or stored.

Straight out of the box, they're kind of meh, but the thrifty, creative and determined can indeed make a silk purse out of a sow's ear with these kits.  My wish is that as the laser technology gets cheaper, all of the kits are converted to laser cut and many of these issues will be resolved. It's a bit daunting if the builder isn't comfortable sanding and patching.     

[Mid-life madness]

My dream kit is made of laser cut Baltic birch. I haven't bought one yet, but there are some on Etsy.  Did Greenleaf make some limited houses in the upgraded wood? I think I saw the Brookwood was upgraded. I wonder if anyone here built the an upgraded house?

[WyckedWood]

I remember many moons ago before this forum existed I wrote in a question to small stuff digest about what kit I should choose for my first one. I asked if there was a kit that should be avoided because it wasn't beginner friendly etc.  That question got a huge response (the RGT vs. GL always does). Many people said avoid GL and especially the Willowcrest. Then Rik Pierce himself chimed in and asked everyone to stop bashing GL (no pun intended), that he used them, etc. I knew right then that if Rik recommended GL that's what I was going to use. (Look up his fairy house buttercup)   I know he used Gatorfoam also but to my knowledge Rik Pierce never built using MDF. Neither does my other dollhouse guru Don Silva. MDF may be easier (building the Marquam Hill Mansion in MDF I couldn't disagree more about how well it fits together) but theyre not as charming, they're too boxy.  Although obviously they can be very beautiful dollhouses when finished. 

 

 

[shannonc60]

On 06/01/2018, 3:48:18, WyckedWood said:

 MDF may be easier (building the Marquam Hill Mansion in MDF I couldn't disagree more about how well it fits together) but theyre not as charming, they're too boxy.  Although obviously they can be very beautiful dollhouses when finished. 

 

 

I think the boxiness is the design, not the material. 

[rodentraiser]

On 1/4/2018, 9:50:15, BigC said:

.Again people your replies are much appreciated thank you for taking the time out of your day...

Regards C.

Like you could shut us up if you wanted. All we do is talk.

But you're very welcome.

[Thimble Hall]

That is exactly right about the boxy look of MDF, which is why I have persevered with ply My opinions is there there is a place for both, it rather depends on the look you want .

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Jeannine said:

That is exactly right about the boxy look of MDF, which is why I have persevered with ply My opinions is there there is a place for both, it rather depends on the look you want .

Agree, Jeanine.. there is a place for both.. I like both as well.  

[Mid-life madness]

10 hours ago, shannonc60 said:

I think the boxiness is the design, not my material. 

Your kits are beautiful. (Where is you Etsy link?) I was very impressed by them.

You are correct about the material, but I think the commercially produced kits made of MDF are mostly on the boxy side. I am thinking of RGT mainly. They could probably use fresh designers such as yourself. RGT's newly introduced houses are all the same house only changed by window styles etc.

[Guest]

I don't understand how a sheet of MDF can be more 'boxy' than a sheet of ply. If you take a look at many 'Victorian' period American houses they were of a far more elaborate design than the same period houses in England. 

Our Georgian city houses were largely rectangular (Boxy), Our Victorian town houses were rectangular (Boxy).........they were all made out of brick. For some reason the UK Dolls House industry chose MDF over Ply.........but essentially it all starts as 'Sheet' material..........it's the house shape that makes it 'Boxy' not the material.

I have no preference over either and if ply were available here I wouldn't say no to it.

Our traditions are different too. Our Dolls Houses tend to be designed to sit with the back to the wall and the front opens (As in a box).....

[havanaholly]

1 hour ago, MikeUK said:

...Our traditions are different too. Our Dolls Houses tend to be designed to sit with the back to the wall and the front opens (As in a box).....

I suppose the child stands in front of the house on its table to ply with it.  Here the house often sits in the middle of the floor and the child moves all around it to play with it.

[Beulah]

I would much prefer front opening, It just makes more sense.  

[Goldenrodfarm]

I think I would prefer a front opening too, makes much more sense, most places you put them are up against a wall so unless you put them on a turntable either the front or the inside is hidden.